fly line weight?
Moderators: Stan Wright, roadwarriorsvt
fly line weight?
Can anyonce shed some light on this topic? What do you use, etc. and are all lines "forward weighted" to ease casting distance?
Hey Boatless,
From the little that I know about fly fishing...
The weight of the fly line you choose is dependent on a few factors...
1) The rating of your rod (which is dependent on the type and size of fish you're after)
2) The distance you wish to achieve
3) The conditions you are fishing
I'm just going to assume that you're planning to fish Wahiawa. I know Stan uses rods anywhere between 4-wt to 6-wt...maybe an 8-wt in heavy cover. So if your rod is weighted 4-wt, you would choose a 4-wt line.
Saying that...the high tech rods today allow you to underweight or overweight the fly line by one number. So if you have a 4-wt rod, you can choose a 3-wt, 4-wt or 5-wt line.
Most people will choose either a 4-wt line for a 4-wt rod...and very rarely a 3-wt line. The lighter 3-wt line will not cast as well on a 4-wt rod.
Some people will choose a 5-wt line for a 4-wt rod. The reason being the heavier line makes it easier to cast. This is especially evident if you are casting on a windy day. The heavier line, in my own experience only, also allows you better control.
Line comes in Forward Weight, Double Taper and Level...and then there are Flaoting, Sink tip/Intermediate or Sinking.
Forward Weight has a fast taper and a thicker section in the head for about 50 feet, then it quickly tapers to a level line for the rest of it. Most people prefer the forward weight because most of the momentum is on the top section of the fly line when you cast it.
The Double Taper is just that. The line tapers the same way on both ends and it is thicker in the middle section. The Double Taper allows you to switch ends of the fly line when one tapered end gets too short after you've retied too many times. Personally, I'd much prefer to use a Weight Forward and buy new line when the time comes than to use a Double Taper...I just find the WF cast better.
Level...I'm not sure what the application is for the level line...perhaps when you are trolling with the fly rod? But there is no taper and no thicker section on a level line. I have used it before...it's okay...but again, I prefer the WF.
Floating line is just that...hollow core fly line that floats. It is used when fishing very shallow with sinking flies or when you are fishing dry flies. If your floating line starts to sink after you've fished it for a bit, it means that your line has some abrasion on the coating allowing the water to soak in. When that happens, it is time for some new line.
The Sink Tip/Intermediate line is used when you need you line to sink a bit when you're fishing streamers, wet flies or nymphs. They have specific sinking rates and only the first few feet of the line sinks. I think the intermediate line will sink progressive so that the line sinks at an angle (but straight instead of forming a belly). But don't quote me on this. I've yet to use this line...but I am planning to try it out in the summer using the line to fish nymphs.
The Sinking line is just that...heavy line with a lead core that sinks. It is most useful for fishing in deep water. Again, they have specific sink rates. I've yet to use this line...I just haven't find a situation where I need it...perhaps this year I'll try it when I take my rod out for pike in the lake.
Most lines (floating, intermediated and sinking) are forward weighted. However, you can also find them in Double Taper or Level. The forward weight does ease casting.
That's all I know about fly lines...I hope I got everything right. I'm sure Stan will make some comments as well...and correct me in some areas
From the little that I know about fly fishing...
The weight of the fly line you choose is dependent on a few factors...
1) The rating of your rod (which is dependent on the type and size of fish you're after)
2) The distance you wish to achieve
3) The conditions you are fishing
I'm just going to assume that you're planning to fish Wahiawa. I know Stan uses rods anywhere between 4-wt to 6-wt...maybe an 8-wt in heavy cover. So if your rod is weighted 4-wt, you would choose a 4-wt line.
Saying that...the high tech rods today allow you to underweight or overweight the fly line by one number. So if you have a 4-wt rod, you can choose a 3-wt, 4-wt or 5-wt line.
Most people will choose either a 4-wt line for a 4-wt rod...and very rarely a 3-wt line. The lighter 3-wt line will not cast as well on a 4-wt rod.
Some people will choose a 5-wt line for a 4-wt rod. The reason being the heavier line makes it easier to cast. This is especially evident if you are casting on a windy day. The heavier line, in my own experience only, also allows you better control.
Line comes in Forward Weight, Double Taper and Level...and then there are Flaoting, Sink tip/Intermediate or Sinking.
Forward Weight has a fast taper and a thicker section in the head for about 50 feet, then it quickly tapers to a level line for the rest of it. Most people prefer the forward weight because most of the momentum is on the top section of the fly line when you cast it.
The Double Taper is just that. The line tapers the same way on both ends and it is thicker in the middle section. The Double Taper allows you to switch ends of the fly line when one tapered end gets too short after you've retied too many times. Personally, I'd much prefer to use a Weight Forward and buy new line when the time comes than to use a Double Taper...I just find the WF cast better.
Level...I'm not sure what the application is for the level line...perhaps when you are trolling with the fly rod? But there is no taper and no thicker section on a level line. I have used it before...it's okay...but again, I prefer the WF.
Floating line is just that...hollow core fly line that floats. It is used when fishing very shallow with sinking flies or when you are fishing dry flies. If your floating line starts to sink after you've fished it for a bit, it means that your line has some abrasion on the coating allowing the water to soak in. When that happens, it is time for some new line.
The Sink Tip/Intermediate line is used when you need you line to sink a bit when you're fishing streamers, wet flies or nymphs. They have specific sinking rates and only the first few feet of the line sinks. I think the intermediate line will sink progressive so that the line sinks at an angle (but straight instead of forming a belly). But don't quote me on this. I've yet to use this line...but I am planning to try it out in the summer using the line to fish nymphs.
The Sinking line is just that...heavy line with a lead core that sinks. It is most useful for fishing in deep water. Again, they have specific sink rates. I've yet to use this line...I just haven't find a situation where I need it...perhaps this year I'll try it when I take my rod out for pike in the lake.
Most lines (floating, intermediated and sinking) are forward weighted. However, you can also find them in Double Taper or Level. The forward weight does ease casting.
That's all I know about fly lines...I hope I got everything right. I'm sure Stan will make some comments as well...and correct me in some areas
Last edited by Ken on Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Here a few more things about Fly lines:
WF- Has a "running line" portion which is thinner than the Forward portion, this will allow you to fit more line on the reel, not really a factor for tucs but I would still recommend it as do most other people from what I've read. I've only used floating lines, they seem to work fine at Lake Wilson and also for bonefish on the flats. However, I've recently tried using a Sinking Poly Leader (for bonefish) that you can connect to floating line if you decide you want to fish deeper water, which I have found that while bonefishing I sometimes do. I'm also going to see if this makes a difference for Tuc fishing(I don't think it will). But it is a relatively cheap way to create a sink tip line(5 or 6 bucks) without having to purchase a extra spool of line or a extra fly spool equipped with another line.
I agree with Ken about the different weights and casting abilities. I have mostly used a 6wt at wilson which I think is about all you will really ever need. Maybe on a windier day a 7 or 8 wt. Before I got my 6wt I was using a 9wt and it worked fine....you just don't feel the smaller fish pull as much. Recently I purchased a 4wt. One thing to consider when choosing a fly rod wt is that having a higer weight makes casting larger flies much easier. But most of the flies I use at wilson are smaller.
Hope this helps I think it would have helped me. If you're interested about reels make another post.
WF- Has a "running line" portion which is thinner than the Forward portion, this will allow you to fit more line on the reel, not really a factor for tucs but I would still recommend it as do most other people from what I've read. I've only used floating lines, they seem to work fine at Lake Wilson and also for bonefish on the flats. However, I've recently tried using a Sinking Poly Leader (for bonefish) that you can connect to floating line if you decide you want to fish deeper water, which I have found that while bonefishing I sometimes do. I'm also going to see if this makes a difference for Tuc fishing(I don't think it will). But it is a relatively cheap way to create a sink tip line(5 or 6 bucks) without having to purchase a extra spool of line or a extra fly spool equipped with another line.
I agree with Ken about the different weights and casting abilities. I have mostly used a 6wt at wilson which I think is about all you will really ever need. Maybe on a windier day a 7 or 8 wt. Before I got my 6wt I was using a 9wt and it worked fine....you just don't feel the smaller fish pull as much. Recently I purchased a 4wt. One thing to consider when choosing a fly rod wt is that having a higer weight makes casting larger flies much easier. But most of the flies I use at wilson are smaller.
Hope this helps I think it would have helped me. If you're interested about reels make another post.
Good addition Ca_Bass.
One question...I'm also intersted in the Sink Tip connection (or like your Sinking Poly Leader). Did you use the loop-to-loop connection type or did you use the ones with a braided mono/heat shrink tubing connection?
I'd like to try out the loop-to-loop type...just much more convenient in my mind. I do wonder how bulky is that extra loop-to-loop since I'm already doing a loop-to-loop from my floating line to leader connection.
Man...it sucks living in Canada at times...All the little creeks and rivers are frozen and the big ones are just no fun to fish right now (ice shelf on the banks...trying to wade that is very dangerous at times due to thin ice...plus trying to deal with the slush while drifting...
).
Oh well...I just gotta keep icefishing and wait patiently for spring to roll around
One question...I'm also intersted in the Sink Tip connection (or like your Sinking Poly Leader). Did you use the loop-to-loop connection type or did you use the ones with a braided mono/heat shrink tubing connection?
I'd like to try out the loop-to-loop type...just much more convenient in my mind. I do wonder how bulky is that extra loop-to-loop since I'm already doing a loop-to-loop from my floating line to leader connection.
Man...it sucks living in Canada at times...All the little creeks and rivers are frozen and the big ones are just no fun to fish right now (ice shelf on the banks...trying to wade that is very dangerous at times due to thin ice...plus trying to deal with the slush while drifting...
).
Oh well...I just gotta keep icefishing and wait patiently for spring to roll around
Oh...to add to what I've just said...
When I first started out learning about flyfishing (before I even got a rod and reel), I was horribly confused regarding the weight rating of fly rod, reel and line. I started with spinning gear and everything is so simple in spinning gear
So basically, here's a chart as to what you would use for the various weights...base on the research I've done so far...
Freshwater
0-wt - yes...it exists...but I think people only use them to fish medaka and guppies
2- to 3-wt - typical panfish rod, typical small creek trout rod (some people here specializes in catching 20"+ trout with a 3-wt when they need to cast #22 dry flies to tempt the well educated trout)
4- to 6-wt - typical trout rod, heavy panfish rod
6- to 7-wt - light bass and steelhead rod
7 to 9-wt - heavier bass and steelhead rod, light salmon rod, light pike rod
9 to 11-wt - heavier pike and musky rod, typical salmon rod
Saltwater
4- to 6-wt - light small papio and moana rod?
6- to 7-wt - light bonefish rod, typical small papio rod?
7 to 9-wt - light ulua rod, typical striped bass and bluefish rod, typical bonefish, redfish, snook rod, light permit rod
10 to 11-wt - typical ulua rod, typical permit rod, typical small/medium tarpon rod, light pelagic rod (aku, mahimahi, bonito, shibi yellowfin...)
12 to 13-wt - typical ulua rod, typical pelagic rod, heavy tarpon rod, light sailfish rod, light small marlin rod
14-wt+ - typical tuna rod, typical salifish rod, medium small marlin rod
Hope it helps.
When I first started out learning about flyfishing (before I even got a rod and reel), I was horribly confused regarding the weight rating of fly rod, reel and line. I started with spinning gear and everything is so simple in spinning gear
So basically, here's a chart as to what you would use for the various weights...base on the research I've done so far...
Freshwater
0-wt - yes...it exists...but I think people only use them to fish medaka and guppies
2- to 3-wt - typical panfish rod, typical small creek trout rod (some people here specializes in catching 20"+ trout with a 3-wt when they need to cast #22 dry flies to tempt the well educated trout)
4- to 6-wt - typical trout rod, heavy panfish rod
6- to 7-wt - light bass and steelhead rod
7 to 9-wt - heavier bass and steelhead rod, light salmon rod, light pike rod
9 to 11-wt - heavier pike and musky rod, typical salmon rod
Saltwater
4- to 6-wt - light small papio and moana rod?
6- to 7-wt - light bonefish rod, typical small papio rod?
7 to 9-wt - light ulua rod, typical striped bass and bluefish rod, typical bonefish, redfish, snook rod, light permit rod
10 to 11-wt - typical ulua rod, typical permit rod, typical small/medium tarpon rod, light pelagic rod (aku, mahimahi, bonito, shibi yellowfin...)
12 to 13-wt - typical ulua rod, typical pelagic rod, heavy tarpon rod, light sailfish rod, light small marlin rod
14-wt+ - typical tuna rod, typical salifish rod, medium small marlin rod
Hope it helps.
Good addition Ken about the Fly rod weights...
About the Poly Sinking Tip leader, I got it from cabellas, I think they make two light trout for 3-5wt lines I think and trout for 6-9wt lines. It uses the loop to loop conection to your fly line. It's pre made and seems to be the shirnk type, I can't really tell but it looks pretty natural, seemless and sturdy. The other end for tippet I suppose you can tie that how ever you want. When fishing for bones the other day it didn't hinder my casting all, the only think I'd suggest is using much lighter flies, My regular bone flies I use with floating line that I was trying to get deeper were constantly getting hung up..On the other hand my lighter flies that I usually don't have the patience to use when fishing for bones where just about perfect...even though I didn't catch a bone that day.
The bones we acting crazy..I usually can't get withing 15-30 feet of ..them without them spooking, but I had a school actually swim a complete circle around me and not even flinch. I don't know if it was because the water was not as clear as usuall or if the cloud cover was making them feel safe or maybe they're spawing, I don't know. Haven't been fishing for them long enough to find out and I don't really know all that many people who fish for them to ask....
Maybe Stan could enlighten me.
About the Poly Sinking Tip leader, I got it from cabellas, I think they make two light trout for 3-5wt lines I think and trout for 6-9wt lines. It uses the loop to loop conection to your fly line. It's pre made and seems to be the shirnk type, I can't really tell but it looks pretty natural, seemless and sturdy. The other end for tippet I suppose you can tie that how ever you want. When fishing for bones the other day it didn't hinder my casting all, the only think I'd suggest is using much lighter flies, My regular bone flies I use with floating line that I was trying to get deeper were constantly getting hung up..On the other hand my lighter flies that I usually don't have the patience to use when fishing for bones where just about perfect...even though I didn't catch a bone that day.
The bones we acting crazy..I usually can't get withing 15-30 feet of ..them without them spooking, but I had a school actually swim a complete circle around me and not even flinch. I don't know if it was because the water was not as clear as usuall or if the cloud cover was making them feel safe or maybe they're spawing, I don't know. Haven't been fishing for them long enough to find out and I don't really know all that many people who fish for them to ask....
Maybe Stan could enlighten me.
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Stan Wright
- King Sushi level
- Posts: 3015
- Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:00 pm
- Location: Hawaii
- Contact:
Hay Boatless.... I hope we didn't scare you with all the information. It's not as overwhelming as it seems.
These guys have given you some very good information. But don't try to learning everything all at once.... fly fishing is easy and lots of fun.
I would visit the Nervous Water fly shop...
http://www.nervouswaterhawaii.com/guideinfo.htm
3434 WAIALAE AVENUE, behind the Chinese resturant.
They can not only answer your questions, but show you the tackle so you can hold it in your hands.
Next step is get some casting practice in the park. You can try different rods and get an idea what works best for you. (out fishing on the water is NOT the time to be learning how to cast.)
Then we'll have to get you out on the water for a little fishing...
The size of the rod and line is chosed more to match the size of the fly your using and how strong the wind is blowing rather than the size of the fish your after. On the other hand if your going after some of those big saltwater fish... you will need a big rod and a reel with a good drag with lots of line on it.
I like a 5 or 6 weight rod with matching line..... WF-5-F (weight forward, 5, floating) I use small flys so the 5wt rod is perfect for me. If the wind picks up or I use a larger heavy fly... I have the 6wt rod. Clay feels it's easier for a beginner to cast a 6wt rod.
The reel is only for holding the line. Peacock bass, even the 5 and 6 pounders are not going to run far enough where a big heavy reel with a good drag is needed.
Peacock bass are not leader shy so I use a 6# or 12# test leader.
These guys have given you some very good information. But don't try to learning everything all at once.... fly fishing is easy and lots of fun.
I would visit the Nervous Water fly shop...
http://www.nervouswaterhawaii.com/guideinfo.htm
3434 WAIALAE AVENUE, behind the Chinese resturant.
They can not only answer your questions, but show you the tackle so you can hold it in your hands.
Next step is get some casting practice in the park. You can try different rods and get an idea what works best for you. (out fishing on the water is NOT the time to be learning how to cast.)
Then we'll have to get you out on the water for a little fishing...
The size of the rod and line is chosed more to match the size of the fly your using and how strong the wind is blowing rather than the size of the fish your after. On the other hand if your going after some of those big saltwater fish... you will need a big rod and a reel with a good drag with lots of line on it.
I like a 5 or 6 weight rod with matching line..... WF-5-F (weight forward, 5, floating) I use small flys so the 5wt rod is perfect for me. If the wind picks up or I use a larger heavy fly... I have the 6wt rod. Clay feels it's easier for a beginner to cast a 6wt rod.
The reel is only for holding the line. Peacock bass, even the 5 and 6 pounders are not going to run far enough where a big heavy reel with a good drag is needed.
Peacock bass are not leader shy so I use a 6# or 12# test leader.
"Why let the truth stand in the way of a good fish story?"
Mahalo for all the info. This thread is good "reference" for other newbies liike me. I've been thinking of going to heavier line for distance but guess all it takes is practice, practice, practice. And Stan, of course I've been doing it all in the wrong order- buy the fly outfit, go on the boat, then "try" to cast..........and wonder, how the hell do they do it??
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Stan Wright
- King Sushi level
- Posts: 3015
- Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:00 pm
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Boatless,
I actually think the lighter the fly rod the easier to cast. The first time I tried fly fishing I was using my buddies 9wt with little success, then I tried his 6wt and my casting was much better. I think the hardest thing about learning to fly cast is probably waiting for you line to "load" your rod on back and forward casts, because the lighter rods are usually more sensitive you can feel your line "loading" your rod.
I actually think the lighter the fly rod the easier to cast. The first time I tried fly fishing I was using my buddies 9wt with little success, then I tried his 6wt and my casting was much better. I think the hardest thing about learning to fly cast is probably waiting for you line to "load" your rod on back and forward casts, because the lighter rods are usually more sensitive you can feel your line "loading" your rod.
I used to have the same problem, this is what my buddy told me that helped a lot:
1. On your back-cast make sure your line is pretty much straight. You have to pause a bit longer with the more line you have out. It's kinda like snapping a whip I guess. If you start your forward cast before your line is fully extended on your back cast you will have your "pile of spaghetti".
2. Right before you start your back cast(kinda simultaneously) ...assuming you're right handed...with your line hand(left) pull a little bit on the line. What this does is takes the "belly" out of your line during your back-cast. The tauter your line is the better your fly rod can transfer the energy to your line. Remember being a kid and playing with a hose or long rope and moving your arm up and down to create waves? It's kind of the same thing with fly casting. If you were to just have and bunch of loose rope in a pile you cant transfer the energy from your arm to the rope and create the waves, but when the line rope or hose is fully extended in a straight line the energy from the motion of your arm easily creates the waves. You can also do this during your forward cast as well to clear your "belly" out of your line.
3. I think another big thing is not bending your wrist. Keep your wrist locked during your forward and back-casts. On each end of your casts, make your arm come to an abrupt stop while keeping your wrist straight this should also help keep your line straight.
I'm not professional fly fisherman or anything but these are the things my buddy taught me to get me started and they really helped, a long with some practice in the grass. A few weeks later I was making good enough casts to catch bonefish on my own.
1. On your back-cast make sure your line is pretty much straight. You have to pause a bit longer with the more line you have out. It's kinda like snapping a whip I guess. If you start your forward cast before your line is fully extended on your back cast you will have your "pile of spaghetti".
2. Right before you start your back cast(kinda simultaneously) ...assuming you're right handed...with your line hand(left) pull a little bit on the line. What this does is takes the "belly" out of your line during your back-cast. The tauter your line is the better your fly rod can transfer the energy to your line. Remember being a kid and playing with a hose or long rope and moving your arm up and down to create waves? It's kind of the same thing with fly casting. If you were to just have and bunch of loose rope in a pile you cant transfer the energy from your arm to the rope and create the waves, but when the line rope or hose is fully extended in a straight line the energy from the motion of your arm easily creates the waves. You can also do this during your forward cast as well to clear your "belly" out of your line.
3. I think another big thing is not bending your wrist. Keep your wrist locked during your forward and back-casts. On each end of your casts, make your arm come to an abrupt stop while keeping your wrist straight this should also help keep your line straight.
I'm not professional fly fisherman or anything but these are the things my buddy taught me to get me started and they really helped, a long with some practice in the grass. A few weeks later I was making good enough casts to catch bonefish on my own.
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FishinFrenzy
- King Sushi level
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:24 am
- Location: Cody, Wyoming
Stripping Basket
I have one more thing for you boatless and I wish I would have got one earlier, a striping basket of some sort. I ended up getting one that is like a belt and the striping basket is retractable, personally I find it to be AWESOME!!!!. This is a great thing to have whether your fishing from land or a boat. There are soooooo many things that your line can catch on mid cast and frustrate you all day long. It will also keep line clean of dirt a nick free so it should last much longer. Before I got the basket I was using a milk crate. This worked but every time I changed sides of my boat I would have to pick it up and move it...and when the tucs are busting all over the place the quicker I can get to my next cast the better.
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