Red Devil Pick Up Tourney

[roadwarriorsvt]

Is this tourney open to bank fishermen?

[Filthyfisherman]

I would like to open it up to Bank Fishermen as well!! Any suggestions how to weigh them in??? Maybe have Bank fishermen weigh in at 3pm at ramp??? I mean count in? Lol...

[Ken]

This tourney sounds like disguise to get rid of red devils.

Why?

Red devils are extremely fun on light rods and light fly rods. It provides a valuable fishery for Lake Wilson and adds to the variety.

Remember, none of the fish currently in Lake Wilson are native to the Hawaiian Islands. In essence, all of them are invasive and should be taken out. Why prejudice against one yet highly over glorify the other? Yeah, I did say over glorify...and I'm going to make a lot of people unhappy...but largemouth bass are weak and predictable compared to a lot of the other fish swimming in Lake Wilson.

Just because it does not fit the bass fisherman mold does not make it any less valuable or fun...

Just saying...

I'm sure Stan agrees with me how much fun those days can be when you can cast to red devils, twitch a light fly close to them, and get smacked! With a 3-wt, I almost don't want to fish for peacock bass or largemouth bass.

At home, I don't even both targeting largemouth bass. I would much rather fish for carp, bowfin (yes, I did just list those two first over all others!), small stream trout on the fly, redhorse suckers, steelhead, channel catfish, muskie...etc. Largemouth and smallmouth bass is as far down the bottom on my list as it can get...basement "trash" species that are too available, too accessible and absolutely no novelty when every person and their aunts and uncle can catch a bass.

I'm pike fishing and I catch a bass on a spinnerbait. I'm musky fishing and I catch a bass on a bucktail spinner. I'm walleye fishing and I catch a bass on a jig combo. I'm bottom bouncing for redhorse sucker and I catch a bass on a 3-way rig with a nightcrawler. I'm bowfin fishing and I rip a bass out from under a dock with a freelined nightcralwer. Heck, I'm fishing for hognose suckers and a dumb bass came out of a log jam to smash an incidentally caught creek chub (the same bass hit my incidental minnow catches 5 times...and I finally put on a large hook the 6th time on one of my minnows and took it...just like that...6 times!!! Try that with a bowfin and the bowfin will flip you its fins before you even have a chance to toss a bait at it!)

That's why I think bass are too easy, too accessible...and more often than not...too dumb to really be any challenge at all. Not sure why bass tournaments are so huge...seriously.

Peacock bass...now that's a whole different story! I love peacock bass...and they are NOT a bass...a cichlid in fact...much closer related to red devils than to a bass.

Anyways, I'm just sour over a plan to remove red devils. They have as much right to be in Lake Wilson as any other Lake Wilson transplanted residents.

[Jesse]

I guess the lake or its actually more like a river is too small to have so many bad asses in it! Someones gotta go As a fly fisherman I would like to see bigger peacocks in their but don't get me wrong bass are fun to catch too.

[BASSTRACKER]

its quite funny you refer to bass as a trash species because they are so catchable where you live. but yet over here its the red devils that do exactly what you say the bass do there. you can catch red devils with impunity on any bait and at any time here they are so abundant so wouldn't that be our trash fish by your standards?

[Ahnkochee]

They need to get the Red Devils at Ho'omaluhia Pond under control, they have taken over and ruined the once great Smallmouth, and Channel Cat fishing in there. Red Devils should be a catch and take home fish at Ho'omaluhia. Why the C&R policy there

[Crash]

Respectfully, I couldn't disagree with you more Ken.

The Red Devil has clearly taken over a large population percentage of Lake Wilson. As well-versed as a fisherman as you are, you should know that the forage base that these Red Devils consume is hurting the fish (Tucanare/Bass) targeted by a majority of anglers. The Red Devil is an extremely agressive fish, consuming a lot of forage fish found in Wilson.

Here on Oahu, as you know, freshwater fishing has a small following locally. The reality is, most freshwater anglers on Oahu just can't decide to go fish Lake X, Lake Y or Lake Z if they do not like what Wahiawa Reservoir has to offer. It's mostly a one shot deal for the freshwater anglers. We get what we get and most of us want to fish for Tucanare or Bass.

I totally respect your desire and ability to chase/catch fish that are considered undesirable, or less than desirable, by a vast majority of anglers. In all honesty, I think it's freaking awesome that you have such a burning ambition to catch as many species as you can. It's admirable....really.

The simple fact is this. The Red Devils are doing a disservice to the fishery at Lake Wilson. It's a fishery...not an "every fish gets a snack" body of water (well, at least it shouldn't be IMO). Do the Red Devils "deserve" to be there, well yes. I suppose they didn't ask to be illegally introduced. But do anglers that pay their hard earned money "deserve" to have to deal with the results of the Red Devil. My opinion is no.

I'm in support of "thinning the herd". I'm all for eating them, throwing them in a pond, using them to fertilize crops or using them in some fashion. Nothing should go to waste IMO, even the Red Devils.

They may be fun to catch if you're targeting them, but the vast majority of anglers arent launching their boats or sliding down muddy banks to catch a Red Devil.

Just my thoughts....

[Crash]

Oh yeah...sorry to hijack the thread. My bad.

[Ken]

There are multiple factors that's affecting bass proliferation at Lake Wilson. I've read many reports here that bass are skinny and not feeding well.

Why is this?

People like to say the Red Devils are causing the issue...direct competition with bass.

Maybe that's partly true.

However, during the boom days of Lake Wilson, the lake was in much different shape. There were good weed growth allowing bass to ambush prey.

The last time I was on Lake Wilson with Stan (2009), the lake was more like a big clay bowl. There were not really any weed growth at all that I can remember. Sure, there are lots of fallen timber, but bass needs more than fallen timber.

In Ontario, we have carp invading ponds and lakes. What was once a great pond or lake for bass fishing was turned barren because the carp started to uproot underwater plants that supports the lake. Due to the reduction of vegetative cover, increased turbidity, perhaps increase water temperature and decrease oxygen levels with plant removal, the bass were affected.

If the top predator decreases, it allows population boom of the lower predator. The Red Devils are really just taking advantage of an open niche.

Now, maybe you can convince me if Red Devils's burrowing activities are affect plant growth. I can understand that Red Devils can prey on bass fry.

However, unless something is done to improve the ecology of the lake with increase underwater landscaping (planting various types of vegetation), all of this is really a moot point.

The bass in Lake Wilson will more likely benefit from shallow weedy flats. Unlike other rocky, clear, deep reservoirs in some of these famous bass fishery, bass at Lake Wilson are in a rocky, tannic lake where the deep areas are much more hypoxic than other deep reservoir. Being murkier with darker water colour, sun penetration just isn't enough and plants can't grow in the depth. So...if you have no shallow oxic areas for bass, and they are driven to deep hypoxic water, how do you expect bass to thrive? It's not an issue of having too much Red Devil...it's not having enough habitat.

Aside from increasing habitat for bass, weed flats also increase habitat for overall biomass. This includes insect nymph, small prey fish, worms...etc. Increase the biomass and it will improve bass fry survival as well. You're right, the lake is only so big and it can only support so many fish...but this is not with sufficient habitat. Increase the habitat, increase the biomass of prey items, and you just increased the pie where more fish can get a bigger slice (the share is still the same, but the overall food availability is greater). I don't have to say to some of you to look back at the time before the Sylvania invasion that the lake had much more underwater weeds. Establish that again and you can improve bass habitat.

Why not spend a day planting addition weeds to help build the necessary habitat for largemouth bass?

I can tell you this...I was in Florida last April and there were various cichlid species in the canals (including Red Devil's close cousin the Midas Cichlid, and other aggressive ones like Oscar and Mayan Cichlid)...along with quite a few bass. There is no problem having all of them coexist. Bass enthusiast will like to say otherwise, but I had not problem catching bass in Florida. In the distant past, I have even caught bass in Florida's canals using a hand line and a simple plastic grub.

The only difference is that Florida's canal is very weedy. Some areas even need triploid grass carp to help with weed control.

Maybe the Red Devils are overly aggressive in hitting a bait intended for bass...but you can always use a larger lure. I don't think Red Devil will be able to take a 7" senko...they may hit it, but they won't be able to swallow that big plastic.

Anyways, I have a very different approach to fishing than most people. Like Crash said, I like to explore all fishing opportunity instead of fishing with a tunnel vision focused on a handful of species. I think as exotic Hawaii is, Hawaii deserves an exotic freshwater fishery. Where else in the world can you go fish in one lake and catch fish from South America, North America, Asia and Africa all in one go?

[roadwarriorsvt]

I agree with Ken on the following points:

There are multiple factors that's affecting bass proliferation at Lake Wilson

We suspect the red devils reducing the available forage for the LMB is one of Lake Wilson's several problems.

A lack of aquatic vegitation has several negative impacts on the lake.

However, unless something is done to improve the ecology of the lake with increase underwater landscaping (planting various types of vegetation), all of this is really a moot point.

This too, is very true. The ball is (slowly) rolling on this part of the problem.

A fisheries biologist recently told me "Habitat is the most important concept of fisheries management. As goes the habitat, so goes what lives in it". I believe this to be our golden rule.

Why not spend a day planting addition weeds to help build the necessary habitat for largemouth bass?

I would consider this time very well spent. Since DLNR manages the lake, we have to ask permission to do anything with the lake. After the sylvania molesta episode, I doubt they'll allow anyone to introduce any type of vegitation to the lake, no matter how beneficial it may be.

Yes, the RD tourney is a tool to help eradicate some RDs out of the lake. In reality, we'll never completely eliminate them from the lake, but as with all types of fish, their numbers need to be kept in check. At times, harvest is a good thing. We are attempting to help balance our fishery.

The HFFA is working hard to get Lake Wilson's fishery improved and more balanced. Much personal time, money, and effort is going into getting our goals defined and accomplished.

[Filthyfisherman]

Here's more updates for Sunday's pick up!!! It's just a pick up gathering guys, not any project, or Tournament sort of say.... Just a friendly gathering guys!!! $10 Tourney 70% winner 20% second 10% third place,,,, $5 Lunker pool 100% pay back..

Most RD's win's the End Of The Month Red Devil Throw Down!
Biggest RD win's The Lunker Pool 100% pay back

All State Hawaii Freshwater Fishing Regulations apply...

[Ken]

We Don't need to spend 1,000's$ having a Biologist tell us that!!!

I'm sorry...as a researcher working on his PhD (although in molecular and cellular biology), I take that with a little offense.

Biologists may not be always right in their hypothesis and action plan in managing species and fisheries, however, they do take a more holistic view of the situation.

At what levels should the eradication stop? Is there inter-species dependency in the lake? When you eliminate the red devils, what other species may take over? Is this really the way to do it if another species (say Five Star General or Bluegills) fill this empty niche? Does it really solve the problem?

Again, I don't think Red Devils are the sole problem, and eradicating them this way is not going to help much in my opinion.

I was just thinking after posting this last night what other factors may be affecting the lake.

For one, I know that water level fluctuation does not help with the re-establishment of vegetation. I remember those extreme high and extreme low levels at the lake. In fact, I've seen it first hand on the two occasions I've fished with Stan. The first time was an overnight increase in water level of over 5 feet, turning the lake murky and flooding the California grass beds. The second time was a persistent "drought" where the water was so low the saddle at Boy Scout Island (I think that's where it was) was high and dry. And from reading this board as often as I had, I could even remember sudden changes in water level overnight.

How do you expect vegetation to establish when one day they are completely flooded with murky water preventing light penetration, while a few days later they are left high and dry to bake in the Hawaiian sun?

There are so many more issues that should be addressed first before red devil populations should be addressed. This is really a knee jerk reaction that solves nothing in my mind, since the prevailing conditions of water flucuation prohibit vegetation growth, but encourage red devil spawning (spawning is induced with water level fluctuation if I remember correctly).

Of course, changing water level can be bad for red devil spawning too. But the big losers in this are nest spawners like bluegills and bass where they don't spawn a few times a year and they have specific spawning site needs. How can largemouth bass spawns properly when the water fluctuate so much that bass needs to abandon nests in order for the males to survive? Also, once the water level drops, Lake Wilson is reduced to a lake with steep shorelines where there are no available shallow spawning habitat for largemouth bass, so that fish that are still in spawn conditions cannot spawn. How do you suppose, even if there are no red devils in the lake, do bass establish a stable population? Continued stocking is not the choice...and more and more fishery biologists discovery that stock is not the way to go for a long term, sustained healthy population.

You take away a few hundred red devils from the lake...and a few days later the water level changes...and the red devils dig their little nest again and spawn another litter.

Maybe I am a pessimist regarding this. I do like to see a healthy Lake Wilson where all species currently in the lake is in biological balance. However, there are so many other issues that should be addressed first.

[roadwarriorsvt]

I am throwing a pick up tourney for Red Devils next weekend.. Next Sunday the 28th is a penciled in date.... Live bait allowed.. The Most Red Devils caught wins... Free Lures will be handed out compliments Fitlhyfishermen Bait Co... $10 winner take all.......

Here's more updates for Sunday's pick up!!! It's just a pick up gathering guys, not any project, or Tournament sort of say.... Just a friendly gathering guys!!! $10 Tourney 70% winner 20% second 10% third place,,,, $5 Lunker pool 100% pay back..

First it was winner take all, now it says winner take 70%? Any other chances that I didn't notice?

We Don't need to spend 1,000's$ having a Biologist tell us that!!!

But we do need a highly regarded professional in his respective field to formulate a scientific analysis of the lake to present their professional opinion to our DLNR which is more likely to be accepted than some bass fisherman telling them they need to do this or that.

Plus, some have not spent a dime out of their own pocket to help with making Lake Wilson a better fishery.

[Filthyfisherman]

No split pot,,,, Winner take all then... Free lures to all contestants... 8 am start with 2pm weigh in at Kemmo.. Late entrys just find me.. Boats only. Live bait welcome... Etc... Etc...

[KIA68]

Don't cancel it man! The only person you are insulting doesn't even live here!! He doesn't see that there are thousands of red devils all over the place. Ken do you realy think one little fun tournament will wipe out the red devil population?? Don't think so...

I say go on with the tournament and keep it winner take all!. No sence do a split pot ( top 3) with that low of an entry fee.. It's just a fun tournament...I say do it... Let me know!